A Small Rant
The tour is going well, the shows have all been ace so far. Last night in Sheffield I had a heated discussion (shall we say) after the show with a punter, and it raised a couple of points that I feel the need to sound off about. I should point out that this isn't me having a go at the guy in question, we parted on friendly terms, it's just things I need to get out into the public sphere.
Two separate issues were raised. The first was about signing stuff, poaing for photographs with people after the show and so on. It was suggested that this was an uncool thing to do, fostering the cult of the "star" and all that kinda thing. This is the smaller point, but to restate: one of my least favourite things in the entire universe is the cultural assumption that the people that make music (or films or whatever) are removed from and above the people who consume their art. That's total fucking bullshit; if you take off the rose-tinted specs, the word "rockstar" is synonymous with "arrogant prick". It's not something I ever want to be, and I do my best to be open, approachable and on a level at my shows. Of course, some people want me to sign some stuff, and if it makes them happy then who am I to say no? From past experience, refusing to do so on egalitarian grounds just makes people think you're up youself, the exact opposite of the desired effect. So yes, I'll sign stuff after shows if people ask me to, but in return I want people to think of me as a normal human being.
Anyways, at the end of the day that's a pretty minor, esoteric gripe about my otherwise awesome job. There's another issue I'm more bothered about, and that's this: there seems to be a school of thought about me which involves people disliking me because I'm not what they want me to be. Basically, on the back of one song ("Thatcher") a group of people decided in their minds to put me into a little box marked "protest singer" (or "politico" or whatever; more to the point, marked as the property of the left). I've never been in that narrow little fuckfest of a scene, I never wanted to be, and I never will be. I like the song "Thatcher Fucked The Kids", but it's a pretty small deal for me, a song about an issue that doesn't bother me so much any more written a long time ago. But because these people are crying out for someone to come and confirm their opinions (in song) they latched onto me. Then when I produce an album that isn't "Talking to the Taxman about Poetry Mk II" they get pissed off, and often vitriolicly so.
So let's state this for the record. I'm not a protest singer. I'm not a politician. I'm a songwriter. But most of all, I'm answerable for my opinions and my lyrics and my thoughts and my actions only to myself. I'm sick of people getting pissed off with me for not being their little pet protest singer, ready to parrot idiotic platitudes about leftism at a moment's notice. Fuck off.
And there it is. Rant over. Thankfully many many more people are into what I do for the right reasons, i.e. for my music. And to these people, I'm grateful.
Two separate issues were raised. The first was about signing stuff, poaing for photographs with people after the show and so on. It was suggested that this was an uncool thing to do, fostering the cult of the "star" and all that kinda thing. This is the smaller point, but to restate: one of my least favourite things in the entire universe is the cultural assumption that the people that make music (or films or whatever) are removed from and above the people who consume their art. That's total fucking bullshit; if you take off the rose-tinted specs, the word "rockstar" is synonymous with "arrogant prick". It's not something I ever want to be, and I do my best to be open, approachable and on a level at my shows. Of course, some people want me to sign some stuff, and if it makes them happy then who am I to say no? From past experience, refusing to do so on egalitarian grounds just makes people think you're up youself, the exact opposite of the desired effect. So yes, I'll sign stuff after shows if people ask me to, but in return I want people to think of me as a normal human being.
Anyways, at the end of the day that's a pretty minor, esoteric gripe about my otherwise awesome job. There's another issue I'm more bothered about, and that's this: there seems to be a school of thought about me which involves people disliking me because I'm not what they want me to be. Basically, on the back of one song ("Thatcher") a group of people decided in their minds to put me into a little box marked "protest singer" (or "politico" or whatever; more to the point, marked as the property of the left). I've never been in that narrow little fuckfest of a scene, I never wanted to be, and I never will be. I like the song "Thatcher Fucked The Kids", but it's a pretty small deal for me, a song about an issue that doesn't bother me so much any more written a long time ago. But because these people are crying out for someone to come and confirm their opinions (in song) they latched onto me. Then when I produce an album that isn't "Talking to the Taxman about Poetry Mk II" they get pissed off, and often vitriolicly so.
So let's state this for the record. I'm not a protest singer. I'm not a politician. I'm a songwriter. But most of all, I'm answerable for my opinions and my lyrics and my thoughts and my actions only to myself. I'm sick of people getting pissed off with me for not being their little pet protest singer, ready to parrot idiotic platitudes about leftism at a moment's notice. Fuck off.
And there it is. Rant over. Thankfully many many more people are into what I do for the right reasons, i.e. for my music. And to these people, I'm grateful.
posted by frank at 2:01 PM
27 Comments:
Im pleased to see you say that and rant about it. I hate the idea of stereotypes and the concept of conforming to a particular sector, or type. I have been arguing this point for awhile now with my friends. Many of them cant accept my music taste, reason being that i have such a random taste in music- i dont match to a particular genre and therefore a particular group. I cant see why its such a problem for them, i like music, anything from metal through to pop, even some classical. I like to consider myself as an open minded person, instead of stuck to one taste and type.
I believe you cant live your life through one small environment and you defineately shouldnt live through someone else. So i think its right for you to say, if people want to protest, they should use their own artistic talents to achieve their desired outcomes.
It's a peril of every job that people don't always understand what it is you do (for me, working in IT, everyone thinks i know how to fix televisions and electrics for some reason).
18 months ago people were pissed at you for not being hardcore anymore. Then people were pissed that you got a live band. Next people will be annoyed at something else...it's a no win situation, but I understand your frustration.
Stay true to yourself and those who don't follow you, you're better off without. But there will always be someone who wishes all your songs were like Sea Legs, or Thatcher or whatever. Send those people my way, and I will kick them in the nuts/baby maker for you.
I'm glad you wrote that. I was at Leeds on Monday, and my sister was a bit perturbed when you said something (just before playing Thatcher) like 'Don't listen to my lyrics, listen to my music', and we then had a discussion about what exactly you'd meant. And I'm pleased to say I said it was basically what you've said here.
I agree with 'anonymous' above, I find it very frustrating when people try and force you to only like music for particular reasons - I like to think I like music when it's good - and increasingly annoying when people tell me that I'm not allowed to like something because it's 'shit', or whatever poor excuse they give.
Also, I don't think it's remotely uncool to pose for pictures or sign things. Music has the ability to take on a real importance to people, and when that happens, it's an amazing pleasure to be able to speak to the person who has touched your life and to have mementos of that occasion. For this reason and my regrets of not talking to you at the Leeds gig, I'm going to have to try and get along to a few more gigs before you start to play venues that are too big for you to hang around watching the support acts!
Exactly its all about the music. I mean why do you have to have a mohican and piercings to be a punk?
Johnny Cash was more punk than what Green Day are now lol!
Love new album btw
Personally - I was sensing a protest..which kind of takes it back to the beginning.
The album comment above is true though. I'm completely in love with it.
(its musically uncool to admit that I know. I'm clealry never going to make it as a scenester.)
That's pretty interesting. Completely agree about the signing stuff - it's inevitable that people respect you and are going to be a bit in awe of you because they love your music that much. You'd probably be the same if (I don't know if you have) you met Henry Rollins or whoever. Like it or not, and even though you might think it's weird, people do think of you in that way and you signing things for them, as you say, makes them happier, so anyone who has a problem with that is being very petty.
As for the political stuff, again I agree that it's ridiculous people trying to tell you what to write about it - it's your music, and it's up to them if they like it or not. However, isn't it a little disingenuous (and I don't mean intentionally) to suggest that they have got this idea of you as a political, protest singer just from 'Thatcher'?
You did, after all, write songs like 'Charlie + The Propaganda Myth Machine' and 'Bread and Circuses' in Million Dead, which sound pretty punk, left-wing and anti-capitalist to me (apologies if I'm wrong).
The title track from Love Ire And Song is pretty rabble-rousing too, no? And doing covers like 'When The Huntsman Comes A Marchin', again is one of the reasons why people think of you as political.
Nothing wrong with that and if you have views you shouldn't be ashamed of them, being political isn't fashionable these days but that doesn't mean it's wrong! But, equally, if you don't want to write political songs you don't have to, and anyone who thinks otherwise should, as an above poster said, write some political songs themselves!
I must admit though, that on a personal level songs like Love Ire are important to me because they provide some hope and focus - there's so much wrong with the world and so much apathy it can get depressing.
"Exactly its all about the music. I mean why do you have to have a mohican and piercings to be a punk?"
Agree with that. Punk rock is a state of mind!
well if everyone's going to leave their two cents i better conform and do so. i'll be at the oxford gig and if i swallow my cooler than thou attitude i'll be asking you the sign the new album for me, not because of your rock status but in ten years time it might be worth ebaying. more seriously, wegottickets tickets means no stub so i need something to add to my gig related items collection for when i'm senile.
also if my hard-assed conservative friend who donates money to Boris Johnson because I refuse to vote for him can put aside your blatant politicising to enjoy your music i think that those who may agree with you should be able to ignore that fact too. if someone's looking for a revolution its going to need more man power than a 300 capacity gig venue. [with a high chance that most are apathetic or just don't agree]
Think the rant stands on its own fairly well but thought I'd just confirm the fact that you/Frank are/is in all likelihood the most honest and approachable musician I've ever met or heard. Have been to 3 gigs and each time either did talk to you/Frank or could've done if I'd felt so inclined. People I've been with have got stuff signed and that's pretty cool; all it means is that cd or whatever is now a bit more unique and Frank took the time to engage with people who enjoy his music. It's a catch 22 as far as appearing diva-ish goes, so why not give people what they want.
As far as lyrical content goes, I dare anyone to say that every syllable isn't genuinely felt and delivered as such. Writing for an agenda or anything that hasn't come to mind naturally could only dilute that and would put me right off. If what is being sung about doesn't match or confirm what you believe in, its probably because Frank (or whoever you're listening to) hasn't thought about that perspective, had a different experience of life or has a different view to you. Everyone's different even if you are pretty close in philosophy. At the end of the day politics, while it is utterly vital and something I give a fair amount of thought to (as it happens I'm coming in from the left if that still means anything and isn't completely one-dimensional), is no more worthy as a subject than any other reflection on life as it is experienced.
Final thought; I don't drink and still love to sing (howl) along to songs about getting wrecked eg imperfect tense. It's a class tune and a genuine song. It doesn't relate to me directly but a lot of Frank's songs do.
York was quality Frank cheers, keep up the good work and enjoy your tour. Will catch you again asap.
Songs about girls >>>>>>>> songs about politics.
That's all you needed to say.
And on the subject of signing stuff I came across this on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FULLY-SIGNED-Million-Dead-A-Song-To-Ruin-CD-Album_W0QQitemZ120236120552QQihZ002QQcategoryZ1049QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
But anyone can write songs about girls (and Frank does it better than most). It takes someone with a bit more wit and intellect to say something interesting about politics (like Frank indisputably in Charlie, Thatcher, etc)
Music is whatever you choose to make of it, some people sadly take it the wrong way...
Thankfully the majortiy enjoy it for its original intention
frank is one of the most genuine musicians i have ever met. he loves what he does and is one of the few people in this world who follow what he feels is right.
i enjoyed his 'rant' and hope people respect what he does as its a fucking tough way to make a living and he works damn hard at it.
I really don't understand the guys logic who had a go at you. Surely if you didn't chat to people and have photos taken then that would make you more of a 'rockstar twat' than not doing it? Baffling.
It reminds me of a story about Andrew W.K. Love him or loathe him, when he was on the Vans Warped Tour he used to have to be thrown out by security after each date because he would talk to fans and have pictures with them after his gig finished (in mid afternoon) right up until the festival was being packed up to be moved on to the next date (at about 12am). I'm no fan of Mr W.K but that deserves some mucho respect in my opinion.
Nice rant;) Isn't life more interesting when you're angry? And there will always be someone out there to test that theory on you...
Anyways, if it makes any difference: our little Lorna (1 year old!) does her funny dance to your music with a big grin on her face and I don't think she gets the lyrics just yet:)
Its a good song! i dint understand it but its got a good beat and the words seem ok so fuck kthe polaticains.
Ben
Good rant!
Had an awesome time when you played in Birmingham last night!
Getting the new album tonight!
wagamammas or pizza express?
Who was the lone voice shouting for pizza express :-D
PIZZA EXPRESS ALL THE WAY!!!
We all love you Frank! Bring it on for some Norwich playing tonight where nothing but love for you will be expressed!!
http://someofmybestfriendsaredjswales.blogspot.com/2008/04/frank-turner-love-ire-and-song.html
Well fair fucking play is all i can say mate,
liked ya since i first came across ya on myspace
i especially like the closing rant,
looking forward to clwb ifor bach again,
and great job on the new album. you can sign it when i buy it ;)
Ah, my friends asked you about playing "Thatcher Fucked The Kids" after the workington show last night and you told them that it brought a crowd that you didn't want to be associated with.
I can see what you mean, people with an anarchic mind seem to latch to people who sing "protest songs" - i think thatcher fucked the kids is an amazing song, but to be honest i don't really know what it's about as far as the politics goes. I just think it's a great song.
Great show last night, and i hope you come up our way again soon.
i like songs that you can shout out a bit to or sing along really loudly with everybody to, hence why i enjoy thatcher and ballad of.. etc
i wouldn't really ask frank to play thatcher though, due to the fact that he's said he doesn't really love getting requests for it.
as for the lyrics, i don't really care. i occasionally find myself thinking or saying "thatcher fucked the kids" when people mention her, without meaning to, blatantly just because i like the song. kind of in the same way that if somebody says "it's getting hot in here" i want to say "so take off all yr clothes"
boo hoo someone thinks your a twat, people will, it happens.
Ultimately everyone does/says things that in the future they may not stand by.
A song is not a a contract to stand by its lyrics for ever more its the opinion or feelings or happenings that were going on at the time of writing.
pizza express all the way
ha ha i wondered why you never sang thatcher in workington... i thinks you were loved up here pal... when you back?
I've met you three times Frank (twice in Leeds,Once in Huddersfield) and it made my night that you took time to talk to me, you even dedicated The Real Damage to me in Huddersfield, something that i talk about with my mates to this day :-), having met a lot of bands who are full of 'Rockstars'(ego ridden pricks) it was nice to meet a genuinely nice bloke. Fuck the elitest knobs!
Going back to the above comment about the signed A Song... selling on eBay, relates nicely to the point that I've got signed copies of both A Song and Harmony, on both occasions (among a couple of other shows) I've met Frank and thought nothing but praise and admiration for being so down to earth...
Unfortunately I've not caught any of the solo shows (much to my disgust!) yet, but regardless of signing albums/etc, it's nice that Frank is so approachable and takes time during, or after shows to meet people.
Don't take it for granted, too many musicians simply won't take the time, feeling all they need to do is play and go home!
Frank - hopefully will get chance to have another few words of praise after a show soon!
I totally agree with your sentiments regarding people pigeonholing you as part of a particular scene and then complaining when you release some tracks that don't fit their mould - at the end of the day you are a solo artist and should be able to release whatever music you see fit to.
However I disagree with your statement that your lyrics and your actions are answerable only to yourself - if you release political or opinionated music, or act in a certain way, then I think that you should be able to defend these opinions/actions and stand up for your cause - as you have done in this article.
I'm not saying that you have to debate with every drunken person who questions your view point, but it comes across as a bit of a cop out to state that you don't have to defend your lyrics/opinions/actions full stop, when you are clearly capable of doing so.
For the record I think that you're a very good songwriter and exceptional lyricist, and your new album is great - keep up the good work.
Joey
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